Monday, December 15, 2008

God - The Abuser

Over at Dan the Debunker's blog, I read this little exchange in the 'Ignotheists' post;

Dr. Mabuse: "Is "lying for Christ" a valid reason for lying?"

Dan: "Maybe. Is it a valid reason to lie to save a woman from an abusive husband?"

I couldn't help but think that Dan is comparing Christ to an abusive husband.

There are plenty of similarities there, I must admit, though I'm sure Dan didn't mean it this way.

God: He wouldn't send you to Hell if He didn't love you so Damned much!

EDIT: Dan has since explained that he does NOT see Christ/God as an abusive husband; just thought I'd clear that up.


Sinner Saved said...

C'mon, bud. This is a bit weak...

My intention was to leave a comment at your blog, but...the strain is more than I can bear!

How about some good material, eh?

How about this:
Tell me why you believe you don't need a savior.
And tell me why your big brain is regularly engaged in thoughts of eternity, yet you maintain that eternity is a fairy tale.

CarefulWhatYouSay said...

Where is the love from an anbusive hudsband?

I can talk about God's love all day.

And, um, God has never absued me, I have abused God over and over again though.

All God wants to do is love me and help me.

A lot of times all I want to do is use God and then when I feel done with God- I just toss Him aside and ignore Him.

God always brings me back, patiently helping me grow and learn about who He really is.

It is crazy how people can view God so differently.

Man, I am praying for you ExPatMatt. (Sorry, if you don't like that, but I going to no matter what you say.)


ExPatMatt said...

Hey! People are commenting on my blog; I'd forgotten about this place!

I note that neither of you addressed the substance of the post....

Sinner Saved,

I'm not a great writer and have no delusions of my blog being anything special.

You said;

"How about this:
Tell me why you believe you don't need a savior."

Because I don't believe in God or the concept of sin.

"And tell me why your big brain is regularly engaged in thoughts of eternity, yet you maintain that eternity is a fairy tale."

My brain is pretty average-sized and I don't think I've ever said that eternity is a fairy tale (have I?).


I know that there are major aspects of love in the God that the Bible describes. But in the conversation I quoted in the OP it looked like Christ was being compared to an abusive husband who says "Love me or I'll hit you"

In the case of God it's; "Love Me or I'll send you to Hell forever".

That was the comparison that I was trying to discuss.

"Man, I am praying for you ExPatMatt. (Sorry, if you don't like that, but I going to no matter what you say.)"

Why do Christians think that atheists have a problem with people praying for them? Strange.


Sinner Saved said...

My friend, you must believe that eternity is a fairy tale. Do you not?

Don't you believe that when you die, that's the end? Nothing more?

Or, do you believe that there is an eternity after death, but we lack the capacity to understand exactly what it is?

Please forgive my assumptions; please clarify my misunderstandings.

ExPatMatt said...

Sinner Saved,

I don't know what happens after we die. Nobody does.

You can have faith that there is an afterlife, that's fine. But it would be just as much a faith-based assertion for me to say there isn't an after-life.

I just don't know.

At the minute, I'm leaning towards the old adage that "my post-life experience will be a mirror of my pre-life experience", but I don't know.

I wouldn't be so derogatory as to call the concept of eternity a 'fairy tale'. Some people, yourself included, whom I respect greatly, do believe in an afterlife and the idea of eternity. I also know some people who believe in reincarnation and other strange things.

I don't know, and I'm ok with that.


Czechlervitz said...

Once a sinner dies in his sins, God does not love him, He hates him and His wrath is on him for eternity. God wants sinners to repent while on earth, but His wrath and hatred remain on them all the time they don't repent. God is a Good Judge and He will punish people who have broken His Law, the 10 commandments. God is so Good that He cannot let evil people into His presence. Sinners deserve Hell, all of them. All sin is against God and he hates sin. All sinners who do not repent and die in their sins will go to Hell indefinitely. There are no if's, and's, or but's, about it. Hell will be your eternal dwelling place if you don't repent of things such as but not limited to lying, stealing, fornicating, disobedience, idolatry, blasphemy, coveting, jealousy, homosexuality, pornography, hatred and anything else that breaks the 10 commandments in thought word and deed. That is the Truth.

ExPatMatt said...

That's some nice drive-by evangelism there, sir.

Come back when you're ready to have a conversation like an adult, eh?


Sinner Saved said...

Matt, my friend:

Some people DO know what happens after death.

You say you respect me, eh?

You've concluded that I'm not some simpleton, right?

The evidence is conclusive.

The plan laid out in the Bible would be perfect, except it far surpasses what you and I know as perfect.

Once you learn it, you will be in awe.

Because it's God's plan! And who are we? God's thoughts are laid out for us.

It has crossed my mind before - if anything ever made God stop and think, it was probably when He decided, "How do I make them understand what I'm trying to say...".

His intelligence is not in the same realm of what you and I consider intelligence.

That's worth considering.

ExPatMatt said...

"Some people DO know what happens after death. "

"The evidence is conclusive."

These two statements are going to need some supporting, my friend!

Sinner Saved said...

I could post some evidence.

Then you'd post your rebuttal.

Then I'd post something else.

And on, and on.

It's interesting that a lot of atheists tend to say that they've "studied the Bible" and found it to be free of merit. The truth is, the Bible expositors I listen to have been studying the Scriptures for decades - maybe 40 years (in the case of Dr. McGee) - and they still consider themselves students.

The Bible is perfect. Your evidence says "NO". My evidence says "YES".

The truth is, God created everything, so His point of view is all that matters.

It's like Dr. McGee said:
"This is not our world. This is God's world. God runs this universe. He runs it according to His will. You don't like the way He does things? Well then, go on and create your own universe and run it your way!".

ExPatMatt said...

Sinner Saved,

"It's interesting that a lot of atheists tend to say that they've "studied the Bible" and found it to be free of merit."

We're engaging in a Bible Study over at

It's a bit irreverent, but we're going through the Bible and discussing what we find. I've never said that the Bible is 'free of merit', I just don't think it's divine in origin.

You're free to join our discussion and point out where you feel we're being unfair to the text or missing a particular point. We're up to Gen 30 so far - Jacob was quite the fertile man, wasn't he?!