Wednesday, November 19, 2008

Atheism IS a religion...and so is not stamp collecting!

You heard it here first:

Dan said;

"If this group of 'stamp-collecting is stupid, so I don't do it' crowd gather and organize themselves and promote their 'agenda'....then yes they are now a religion or belief system."

There you have it people. Not collecting stamps is a religion, if you encourage others not to collect stamps too. Brilliant.

The contortions some people are willing to twist themselves up in to avoid being wrong on some things are amazing.

I'm actually pretty stunned


Jason said...


So, it seems apparent that you've been countered by the whole "it takes great faith to be an atheist; even more than to actually believe in Him. Just look around His amazing creation..."

Am I right?

Jason said...

Truth is, I think it really does take great faith to be an athiest (denying the Transcendent), as I understand faith.

Faith, as evangelicals would term it, is simply "putting trust in something without actually knowing if it will work".

Atheists, in my experience, seem to think that faith just means "believing in something that you cannot prove".

Faith, to me, is so much more than simply THAT. After all, what good is this supposed "faith" if it doesn't prove trustworthy?

In other words, after putting faith in something, one will then be able to "testify" about whether "it" worked, or didn't work.

For example, if you tell me that there is a chair behind me, I choose to believe you, or I can choose to sit down (trust you without verifying first).

When faith is put into action, however, it will either stand or fall. Either I will fall flat on my rear, or I will sink into an existing chair.

But.... what if the chair is invisible?
This changes everything.
For, the God of the bible has revealed Himself as the "invisible God who has always existed, without beginning or end".

Still, either the "Chair" will hold me up, or I will collapse into disappointment.

Jesus made the claim that He was the only way to get to our Father (Transcendent, Ultimate Reality, Author of life, etc.).

Either He is, or He isn't.

I say "try it". If He is worth trusting for salvation, I think He is worth getting to know first, lol.

Just my two cents, though.


ExPatMatt said...

Jason, thanks for your comments.

The conversation that lead up to this blog posting was about definitions; what does and does not constitute a religion.

I was arguing that atheism was not a religion in the same way that bald is not a hair colour and not stamp-collecting is not a hobby.

That's not to say that people can't treat atheism in a religious way, but you could argue that some sports fans follow their team 'religiously', it still doesn't make being a sports fan a religion, does it?

That was all I was attempting to discuss. How much 'faith' it takes to be an atheist is a whole other discussion and, as you rightly pointed out in your second comment, is dependent on how you define 'faith'.

"Still, either the "Chair" will hold me up, or I will collapse into disappointment."I tried sitting down in that invisible chair of yours and ended up on the floor. Either God is a prankster and pulled the chair out of the way in order to make a video to put on GodTube, or it wasn't there to begin with.

But you're in danger of going Pascal with this, aren't you?

I mean, should you have a go at all the potential 'chairs' that are out there? There's a very ornate Hindu chair right behind you. Can't see it; that's because it's invisible - just have faith.

You need a good reason to think there's an invisible chair there in the first place. Without any evidence that invisible chairs are a reality, you're better off just standing up.


Jason said...

Good words, man. Thanks for clearing things up.

Jason said...

I can see how "extistentialist" I sounded earlier, lol.

I wasn't trying to say that "if it works, then it's right".

You could sit in the Hindu "chair", but it wouldn't work, because it isn't true.

Hindu's do not claim that they're the "only way" to get to God.

Jesus made that claim.

Maybe you tried "religion", as in "going to church, praying, trying to be a good Christian", but that is not the same as being regenerated.

All the past, present, and future sins of every single person that has ever lived were "pardoned" by what God has done through Jesus.

In other words, it's already been done.
Meaning, the Gospel works, regardless of whether or not you yield to it's power.

What is the proof "it didn't work"?
What, you didn't "feel" any different?
How did you gauge it's supposed ineffectiveness?

Maybe you compared yourself to all of those dramatic stories of "enlightened" experiences that many folks have had. Just because you didn't have one, doesn't mean that you were not regenerated.

If you have seen that Jesus truly is God, then you have been regenerated (rescued). If you still cannot see this, then you are still "blind" to the Truth.

I am sorry if this sounds very cocky, or something. Honestly, this is what I know to be true. If you can't accept it, I still value your opinion, and will still follow your blog, lol.

It may sound cliche, but I will pray for you.


Jason said...

When we refuse to believe that God became a man, reclaiming all of creation back to Himself, we have become...

the hardened pardoned.

How tacky is that??

ExPatMatt said...

Be careful you don't sound to presumptuous there, Jason.

If you want to know the details of my non-existent chair story; you've only to ask.

Are you open to the possibility that there is no God, or has your conversion convinced you with 100% certainty that what you believe (re: the God of the Bible) is true?

Just wonderin'